Abs Delete

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Lynx's picture
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London Ontario

Dec 23, 2009
Abs Delete

Deleted my abs.  Removed pump, and associated lines as well as both front sensors.  I have a front right sensor in good order if anyone needs one.  Left one was destroyed upon removal.

[IMG]http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa126/MrLynx17/GTIR/Trans%20swap%20fall%202011/DSCN1505.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa126/MrLynx17/GTIR/Trans%20swap%20fall%202011/DSCN1506.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa126/MrLynx17/GTIR/Trans%20swap%20fall%202011/DSCN1507.jpg[/IMG]

Easy conversion if you have a double flare kit.  You just trace the lines, cut and run them directly from the master to the proportioning valve.  Then remove all the heavy crap from the car.

I also have a perfectly good abs unit for sale.

demongtir's picture
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new brunswick,canada

Oct 19, 2009

ya i can vouch for this mod ! i did this mod on my pulsar last year havent had any problems at all ,abs is crap on these cars anyways ! Lol !

ryanking123's picture
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saskatoon

Jun 16, 2008

I'll second that. ABS, P/S, A/C and every inch of wire have been torn out of my car.

Lynx's picture
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London Ontario

Dec 23, 2009

powersteering is nice.

jonalaps's picture
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Victoria B.C.

Nov 21, 2011

easyest/cheepest way: i pull out the fuse. cut the ABS wire from the speedometer and conect it with CHEK ENGINE!

ryanking123's picture
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saskatoon

Jun 16, 2008

Hahah I guess that works .... While my car is in pieces though it wasn't a whole lot of extra work to get everything out and rerouted.
As for the P/S.... I own a 944 Porsche without P/S and I don't think I'd want it even if I had the option. Vehicles under 2500 lbs really don't need it and you get a much better feel for the road.

Lynx's picture
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London Ontario

Dec 23, 2009

I disagree.  With 65% of the weight on the front tires, the factory 2700 lbs works out to 1700 lbs over the front axle plus passengers.  That's the same weight that a balanced 3400 lb car would put on the front tires.

My MK1 Mr2 didn't need power steering, my NX 2000 didn't need power steering, but I considered several times removing the PS on the Pulsar, and I just couldn't convince myself.  The steering is just too heavy for any kind of autocrossing, or other motorsports, not to mention just parking it in a lot.  Unless of course you have gorilla arms.

ryanking123's picture
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saskatoon

Jun 16, 2008

I'll let you know how hard it is to turn once I get it on the road. My 944 is 2900lbs with a 51/49 weight distribution putting 1500lbs at the front and I find turning at low speeds very easy. Anything over 20km/h you don't even notice it, not to mention its more responsive and you get a much better feel for the road.

ZED_not_zee's picture
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Really Noneyourbuis
Canada

May 11, 2008

Ryan,  are you using a manual rack or have you just capped off( or looped) the lines?

Mine isn't bigger than yours.. I just like to drive

ryanking123's picture
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saskatoon

Jun 16, 2008

Neither, I T'ed together the lines and ran them to a vented reservoir.

madtec's picture
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York Pa USA

Jan 18, 2012

Got any detailed instructions on how to remove? Do not have the manual

Lynx's picture
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London Ontario

Dec 23, 2009

Step 1:  Be mechanically inclined.
Step 2:  Remove engine to make your life 1000.1238516236% easier
Step 3:  Remove all the lines and connectors going to the abs pump and remove the pump
Step 4:  Connect the lines that go to the calipers directly to the proportioning valve
Step 5:  Install reverse of removal

Done

madtec's picture
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York Pa USA

Jan 18, 2012

You have to be mechanically inclined to work on these cars........luckly i can get to what i need with the intake manifold removed, and since i am back there might as well run an oil cooler, PS line (previous owner hacked it up) and re wrap the wiring harness.  But seriously thinking of just doing the TEC3 standalone.....

nick's picture
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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

thanks for the write up, my abs came out yesterday and my 1inch master went in :)

Lynx's picture
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London Ontario

Dec 23, 2009

Very nice, 300zx?

Was it a LHD master?  Were there any issues with routing the lines?

 

oh, and you are most welcome.

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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

no issues, it was just figuring out which was the primary and which was secondary.

yeah its a LHD master just had to route one of the lines to the other side of the master

it was off an altima with abs :)

Lynx's picture
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London Ontario

Dec 23, 2009

how is the pedal feel?  been considering this for a while but my pedal is pretty firm and you loose overall braking power when you go bigger in the master.

 

Whats is your brake setup again?  Larger rear discs and factory calipers rear but what about the front?

nick's picture
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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

front fastbrakes 11" forged dynalite wilwoods, with the larger rear discs

pedal effort is increased, gotta push harder, i prefer it that way with shorter pedal travel makes it a bit easier to use the left foot for the brakes now.

pedal travel with the 15/16 was too long for my liking after the wilwoods went in

 

There's some sort of sensor contained behind a big silver plate, kind of rectangular/box shaped, is that part of the abs system that can be removed?  no idea whats it for, it sits near the passenger shock tower.

 

nick's picture
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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

front fastbrakes 11" forged dynalite wilwoods, with the larger rear discs

pedal effort is increased, gotta push harder, i prefer it that way with shorter pedal travel makes it a bit easier to use the left foot for the brakes now.

pedal travel with the 15/16 was too long for my liking after the wilwoods went in

 

There's some sort of sensor contained behind a big silver plate, kind of rectangular/box shaped, is that part of the abs system that can be removed?  no idea whats it for, it sits near the passenger shock tower.

 

Lynx's picture
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London Ontario

Dec 23, 2009

sounds like the injector resistors

mat_GTI-R's picture
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Québec

Jan 23, 2008

Thinking of doing this in a few months... anyone have the Nissan part number for the Brake Master Cylinder kit?

Anyone change the proportioning valve while they were at it? I'd like to put in an ajustable one...

Thanks

mat_GTI-R's picture
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Québec

Jan 23, 2008

Lynx, thanks for all your help.

mat_GTI-R's picture
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Québec

Jan 23, 2008

Maybe someone here knows....

So ABS pump is out, but I want to install an adjustable prop valve... so heres my plan: 2 lines from Master to Wilwood adjustable prop valve, one outlet from prop valve to each front wheels and adjustable outlet from prop to a "T" that will split to both OEM rear lines.

Questions:

1- The two outlets on the Master are marked P and S ... anyone know what this means? Primary and Secondary??? Primary = front wheels and Secondary = rear???

2- The rear piston in the Master has a slot that allows the side screw to limit the piston movement... I ordered the tandem piston kit to replace them... I obviously ordered the wrong kit because neither have that slot. So I'm wondering, does piston with slot = kit for ABS and kit with no slot = non ABS ???

 

Thanks 

Pulsar666's picture
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Erik
laval

Jun 10, 2012

did you take a master cylinder from a car without abs ? nissan cars without abs have 4 lines on the master, those with abs have 2 lines

mat_GTI-R's picture
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Québec

Jan 23, 2008

No, I plan on keeping the Master I have with two ports, Primary and Secondary. Really, non-ABS cars have 4 ports off the master? I would think non-ABS cars would have 2 lines from master directly to prop valve, then split to front right and rear left and vice versa...

Pulsar666's picture
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Erik
laval

Jun 10, 2012

I could take a picture of the master cylinder on my gtir or my old sentra, both got manufactured without ABS. the lines that goes to front brake goes directly to the calipers, the other two goes to the valve on the firewall before going to the rear brakes.

for models equiped with abs, the master have 2 lines because it's the abs pump that is separating them on its own distribution block

mat_GTI-R's picture
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Québec

Jan 23, 2008

Ok, and the lines going to the front wheels, are they coming from the primary or secondary port of the master? Are the ports on the master even identified?
Also, have you ever looked at the pistons inside the master? Is the secondary piston held in place by a long screw going through it?

Pulsar666's picture
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Erik
laval

Jun 10, 2012

1 - non abs master cylinder are written F and R for front and rear so i don't know what those are

2 - i never opened a master cylinder, those without abs don't have screws for adjustment. the only thing retaining them are a spring between the 2 pistons and a snap ring at the end

from what car did you take that master cylinder ? i can get you the exploded view schematic.

mat_GTI-R's picture
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Québec

Jan 23, 2008

Ok, but can you tell me for example which port has the F for front brakes? Port closest to firewall?

The screw is not for adjustments but simply to hold the secondary piston in place, it seems to limit the movement of the piston.

My master is the original master that came with my GTI-R, pretty sure it's the OEM unit from ABS GTI-R.

Pulsar666's picture
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Erik
laval

Jun 10, 2012

no I can't tell you what is what because I don't have the car in front of me.

but.... look at the second picture of the 1st post of the thread : looks like that valve have 6 ports. 2 lines from the master, 2 for front brakes and 2 for rear brakes. the position of the primary and secondary on that valve shouldn't matter.

mat_GTI-R's picture
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Québec

Jan 23, 2008

Yes my OEM prop valve has 6 ports as well, for ABS application. 2 ports go to the ABS pump, 2 Rear and 2 front. So yes in this case ports from the master go to the ABS pump. The ABS pump does the proportioning.
In my case I'm removing the ABS pump and prop valve... So I'm guessing that ports from master are now relevant to front and rear.... So I will assume that port marked with P for Primary will feed the front wheels and port S for secondary will feed the rear wheels.

nick's picture
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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

unless you're racing, a custom prop valve is not something you want to mess with on the street

why do you need the adjustable prop valve for?

http://s131.photobucket.com/user/Trip_gtir/media/absMod.jpg.html

i autox heavily and i only run the fastbrakes 11" kit front and rear... i also run a 1inch master with the abs removed.

i didnt need to touch the prop valve

 

mat_GTI-R's picture
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Québec

Jan 23, 2008

Hey Nick, my brakes don't feel quite right when Autocrossing, I'm removing the ABS because I don't use them when racing. I'm running a Willwood 6 piston caliper and a slightly larger than OEM set up in the rear. Since I'm removing the ABS pump, adding an adjustable prop valve is easy... I want to play with front and back bias, hopefully that will solve my issue...plus I'm removing ABS pump and OEM prop valve that could possibly be the culprits.

You mention that you use a 1" master, I'm assuming this isn't the OEM unit? I'm wondering if the pistons in my OEM master will be adequate for my new non ABS set up... The pistons have been changed since I got the car back in 2006. Seems that non ABS Pulsar don't have a screw holding the secondary piston in the master.

nick's picture
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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

if you're experiencing long pedal travel, its b/c you've gone with 6 pistons and a total piston area that is far too large 

 

if you're experiencing front lock up its b/c you've gone so big in front, put an aggressive pad in the rear to balance it out

 

front lock up is unavoidable with so much weight in front on small tires and big 6 piston calipers.  you'll need an r compound at a minimum width of 225 to actually utilize the 6 piston brakes, else it'll be front lock up all the time

 

mat_GTI-R's picture
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Québec

Jan 23, 2008

 

Nick, I'm not experiencing any of what you've mentionned above. I'm experiencing a "spongy" pedal... as if theres always air in the system. I've bled the brakes multiple times, had 2 different mecanics bleed my brakes, check everywhere for leaks, replaced the seals for each piston in both calipers....

Long story short this is where I am, ABS is out and OEM prop valve is out.

Are you running your stock Master with OEM pistons inside? When you removed your ABS I'm assuming you simply removed the pump and fed from master directly to OEM prop valve?

Thanks

nick's picture
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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

if you already have stainless lines and have properly pressure bled the system and don't use shitty pads

abs removal might give some firm pedal back

your spongey pedal is long pedal in my opinion, and thats kuz the front piston area is just very large

 

i'm running an oem nissan 1" master cylinder that has abs from another car.

i only removed the abs pump, and connected the hardlines to the oem prop valve

mat_GTI-R's picture
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Québec

Jan 23, 2008

Yes, I have stainless lines all around as well. I'm hoping to get a firmer Pedal with the ABS and prop valve removed. You might be right, could be the front brakes are too large... I hope not lol.
Thanks for all your help guys!

nick's picture
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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

what you really need is a larger master cylinder, however the pedal will become fairly short , much harder to depress, and difficult to modulate, lock up is much much easier on the larger master cylinder

i only did the master cylinder change was to have a heavy pedal for left foot braking 

 

its a 1" master with abs from an altima, you will have to build new brake lines or bend your original ones to fit as the port locations are on the wrong side

Lynx's picture
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London Ontario

Dec 23, 2009

Lock up should actually be easier on the smaller master...more mechanical advantage.  You should size the master to the strength of your leg.  You want it as large as you can still lock the wheels (within reason).  Braking modulation will be easier on a larger master, more total force required to lock means that you have more scale to play with.

 

If 0 lbs of pedal pressure means 0 lbs of braking pressure and 30 lbs of pedal pressure meanswheels begin to lock.  switching to a larger master might mean that 0 lbs = 0 lbs and 45 lbs = locking wheels.  You have just added 15 lbs of pressure modulation essentially refining your brake control over the same braking force.  Again assuming you can repeatedly push 45 lbs with your leg  (all of these numbers are made up).

nick's picture
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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

the factor you're missing is pedal travel before lock up on a different master

modulating 0.5 inch of travel before lock up is harder (big master)

than modulating 1.5 inches of travel before lockup (small master)

 

i guess i should say threshold braking is more difficult to keep it the point just before lock up with the shorted pedal , it can be learned but it takes time

Lynx's picture
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London Ontario

Dec 23, 2009

I get what you are saying, but I disagree. 

Pedal tavel has really no relevence unless you are talking for two footing or double clutching.  How much force you have to apply to the brakes makes the difference.  If the force applied to the pedal was always the same and there was a point that the pedal reached that determined the lock point that would make sense.  However pedal pressure increases with brake pressure.

The pedal travel is just your leg taking up slack in the braking system.  In a perfect system there would be almost no pedal travel and it would be just about the modulation of force.

You can change how hard or how soft you push on something.  If the difference between no brakes and locked brakes was 0 g of pressure and 2 g pressure it would be an on off switch because you dont have that level of refinement in your motor control.  if it was 0 g and 500 g that would be hard but easier.  1 g and 25 kg and now you have a pedal that is very easily modulated with your motor control.

 

 

nick's picture
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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

yah maybe in a perfect world, but i also disaggree

i found the opposite in real world applciation on my car

at autocross where u gotta slam on the brakes just the right amount without lock, the longer pedal was easier to quickly get off the lock without getting off the pedal too much specially left foot braking

maybe its just the way i left foot brake b/c of my kart, i use the travel since i dont have a pedal that firms up like on a car