Rad/Heater/Boil/thoughts?

Posted: Mon, 12/14/2009 - 9:36pm
Rad/Heater/Boil/thoughts?

Hey all,

So I feel that our fantastically wonderful winter we experience here in Alberta may have claimed a piece of my car, or the whole thing.

I was doing some running around today, and after a couple stops at a pair of malls, I headed out to my dads out in the country. I parked the car, nice and warm, and had dinner etc. Then I ran out about 15 minutes before I had to leave there, as we all should, and when I got to the car, the inside was REALLY cold still. The temps on the engine were alright...but climbing. I decided that my trip was short, and getting home would be fine. The temp kept climbing, and as soon as I slowed to go into the driveway I saw moisture (steam) coming out of the car. I pulled in, lifted the hood and the rad-overflow was boiling HARD.

I am sitting here waiting for everything to cool at the moment. The car ran fine, no misfiring and whatnot, but the temps were at extreme when I got home. I know this is somewhere in the cooling system. What may have frozen? or Broken? A little rad fluid was coming out under the overflow, but that may have been from the pressure releasing from the boiling.

What kinds of quick things can I check to figure out the problem? I am thinking either thermostat or water pump. The heat never worked the entire trip...

Any thoughts?

Maniac

Posted: Mon, 12/14/2009 - 11:48pm

Check your coolant's antifreeze temp protection level with a radiator hydrometer type tester; sounds like the antifreeze mix might be weak and you gelled off the rad and it boiled over due to windchill thru the rad on the trip to the country. Add antifreeze very cautiously and gradually to a boiling over motor.
A bit of cardboard partially covering the rad in front might help keep some heat and may have forestalled gelling a bit; make sure the fluid level is up with the needed strength of antifreeze in the coolant. I use premix but you might want to add 100% mix to start adding to a weak mix.
Without a block heater or magnetic oil pan heater you might have to find a way to get the car inside somehow somewhere warm to thaw out the system or get a tiger torch, stovepipe and tarps and try to thaw it out outside. Park with the engine pointed out of the wind if you must leave it idle.
Hopefully no permanent damage resulted, good luck & stay warm!

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Posted: Tue, 12/15/2009 - 12:39am

I was using two bits of cardboard infront of the rad at the time. I do have an insulated garage in my townhouse here, and I have left the door to it open with the heat on to get things warmer, and thawed. The weather is supposed to get better.

What do you mean by Gelling off? Sorry for my lack of knowledge there, I am not overly up on the cooling system.

Posted: Tue, 12/15/2009 - 8:12am

so your car didn't overheat...  what were your oil temps like?

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Posted: Tue, 12/15/2009 - 9:58am

a partial change of molecular state between liquid and solid: "Gelling" fluid in a rad is where the antifreeze amounts in the coolant are insufficient to keep the water molecules from getting closer together and crystallizing to form ice, but because the coolant is not pure water only a viscous [resistant to flow] mush like a 7-11 slurpy results. Like 'jello' [gelatin] is what the fluid becomes and it doesn't flow very well at all; the less antifreeze in the coolant and greater windchill on the radiator the faster it will happen.
You might also want to check your fan connection plug to see if they are working but I'll bet low antifreeze.

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Posted: Tue, 12/15/2009 - 10:26am

i guess there are some advantages to having a rainy winter in vancouver :D

Posted: Tue, 12/15/2009 - 12:52pm

To be sure! I loved it when I lived in Victoria BC for a year. It snowed only a little bit, almost everybody forgot how to drive for a few days, and then it would all melt and run down the drains and all is back to normal. lol!

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Posted: Tue, 12/15/2009 - 1:04pm

i dunno how u guys survive in those winter temps... like edmonton -46 the other day.. ridiculous

Posted: Tue, 12/15/2009 - 1:07pm

These symptoms are consistent with water pump and thermostat too right?

Here are some more bits about the problem. I blocked up the rad a bit, with a couple bits of cardboard earlier in the day to do a bit of xmas shopping, and it kept everything warm.

Oil temp did get quite high, I havent tried to restart it, as I am going to add some rad fluid tonight when I am done work.

We were looking for any major leaks while the overflow was boiling, and then all of a sudden the boiling stopped and you could hear water flowing...what could this mean? Thermostat warmed and figured it out? My fans never did come on...so I will check that connection too (where is that one exactly...I was looking last night, in the relative dark tho).

Thanks for all the input thus far guys! I hope its nothign serious and my hot jaunt didnt do any damage!

Posted: Tue, 12/15/2009 - 1:12pm

I'm glad my car gets to go away for the winter this time.. although you can't beat a good drifting session in the snow...

Posted: Tue, 12/15/2009 - 2:04pm

That there still was some coolant in the system is a good thing; didn't boil it dry.

nascarmaniac wrote:

We were looking for any major leaks while the overflow was boiling, and then all of a sudden the boiling stopped and you could hear water flowing...what could this mean? Thermostat warmed and figured it out? My fans never did come on...so I will check that connection too (where is that one exactly...I was looking last night, in the relative dark tho).

For the fan switch check the connection at the right top front of the engine bay [small white plastic connector] above where the dual calsonic fans are located. I zip tied the connection after cleaning up the contacts to keep both fans working. If nothing check the fuse then try and jump some power to the fans. Might be ok with full up coolant.

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Posted: Tue, 12/15/2009 - 2:22pm
nick wrote:

i dunno how u guys survive in those winter temps... like edmonton -46 the other day.. ridiculous

Ya! It's brutal. My car has a new trunk mounted battery, 0w-40 Mobile synthetic oil, and barely started. The starter actually spun out after the first 6 seconds of cranking; waited 30 seconds uttering oaths on the season, it cranked a bit less reluctantly and with about 1/4 throttle lit up roughly. I had to play with the throttle for about 10 secs before the rpm stablilized rock solid on 1000rpm, but the clutch couldn't be let in without killing the engine for about a minute. Reved to 2k rpm, feather the clutch and it dropped back to 1000 and in about a minute raised to 1500 rpm. Gear shift [left in neutral overnight always] was virtually unshiftable and after budging into first gear had to drive around the block once to get the square out of the tires and be able to shift to second. After warming for 15 min and driving for a further 10 min at low speeds it only got up to 1/4 vs. just under 1/2 on the temp gauge.
The worst thing is likely the poor starter having to crank so hard at such low speeds in spite of 0w oil!

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Posted: Tue, 12/15/2009 - 3:37pm
Peg_Pulsar wrote:

I'm glad my car gets to go away for the winter this time.. although you can't beat a good drifting session in the snow...

Gotta love it for that! in a twisted way I'm glad it is cold as it is because the lake ice will freeze thick for ice racing and dices early in Jan and Feb. That's where i first saw my soon to be gtir in pits :) at ice driving school by a northern alberta sports car club.

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Posted: Tue, 12/15/2009 - 3:50pm

if its -40 out, i'd go to a 0w30 oil.  Mobil 0w40 is relatively thick still at low temps as its still a 40w oil base.

For example a semi cheap option is the redline 0w30
You can see the specs below. at 40deg C the 0w30 has a cst rate of 57 vs the 0w40 at 81.  The 0w30 would be way better in super cold temps. Useless in hot temps though.

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=125&pcid=21
0w30
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 10.9Vis @ 40°C, cSt 57Viscosity Index 183CCS Viscosity, Poise, @*C 56@-35Pour Point, °C -60
0w40
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 15.1Vis @ 40°C, cSt 81Viscosity Index 197CCS Viscosity, Poise, @*C 57@-35Pour Point, °C -60

Posted: Tue, 12/15/2009 - 4:46pm

What would you all suggest for a anti-freeze mixture? I will be adding to the existing mix, which I dont know. I dont have the area for a flush at the moment, and just want to figure out the bigger problem right now.

Posted: Tue, 12/15/2009 - 4:57pm

Excellent info on oils; the numbers tell the tale. I thought if it was 0w it would flow the same as enough additives to reduce viscosity were added no matter the base.

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Posted: Tue, 12/15/2009 - 5:11pm
nascarmaniac wrote:

What would you all suggest for a anti-freeze mixture? I will be adding to the existing mix, which I dont know. I dont have the area for a flush at the moment, and just want to figure out the bigger problem right now.

An antifreeze hydrometer to test the fluid would help gauge antifreeze level in the coolant. Canadian tire cheap plastic rubber bulb type works fine. Why not fill up with 50:50 premix to bring the level up until you can get a sample [run engine a bit to mix remainders], then top up with 100% if it' s a bit down.

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