New member, possible trade for a gtir for my gc8, thoughts?

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Ryan
Prince George

Jan 25, 2015
New member, possible trade for a gtir for my gc8, thoughts?

Hello, firstly i should introduce myself. I'm from Prince George, BC and working in albert for the last 3 years now, tho I am living back in BC.
Last year around this time i seen a local gtir, did some research and fell in love with the car and it now hols my dream car status. I ended up using an agent and was bidding n them in japan for months with no luck, during al akc of cars showing up my agent showe dme this car his agent picked up at auction. It was a 97 wrx sti ver 4 134,000km with lots of handling and suspension mods and 70000 kms on a swapped rebuilt ej20k.

I ended up getting it thinking itd be a late sumer and winter car untill i found myself a pulsar. I seem to end up falling in love with this car more and more lately as I'm learning to drive it better. I'm looking to do autox this summer.

The owner in japan had set my cat up for autox in the sp class i believe? ATS front and rear dffs, cusco coil overs, cusco lower arm bar, lightweight stabilizer, cusco rear strut bar, clutch and flywheel, rotors and pads.

I'm looking for users that have experiences with both cars.

I'm really looking forward to trading cars, just want to have the best idea possible going into this. I wont know for sure untill i test drive the pulsar and the other buyer is satisfied with the sti as well.

So the pulsar I am trading for is a 92/93 with 64000 kms front mount intercooler but pretty muh stock

My questions are what will be a better handling, more responsive car, or is it all dependant on suspension mods and tuning?
What would e a more dominant autox rig? I would think the gc8?
What will have a better power for money and reliability ratio? What's the easier of the two to build up? I'm willing to spend a bit more for reliabiity and more power.
What have you enjoyed driving more, which one would be quicker?
What would be a better build for a king of the street that 95% of cars on the road cant touch? I'm looking to make this a long term investment and project (rb26 swap, jk)
Whih car would be less likely to cause my constant headaches and overall easer to maintain? The pulsar being older and siting for a long time might need more maintenance, but the sti and ej20/ boxer is a pian already to work on... The sr20 seems prety straight forward
 

Thanks!!

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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

if u truly want to be competitve in autox, don't get into a rhd car the classing kills u.  buy a daily car thats not modded or something you can live with, and get yourself into a ef civic or miata or s2000, these are the go to cars for autox, awd cars are horrible for autox, but thats just personal preference.

 

if u just want to drive something for fun with a lot of aftermarket i'd pick the subaru, there's jus so much more aftermarket,

the pulsar feels quick kuz its lighter and smaller, but it needs a front and rear diffs, customs suspension, swaybars, bushings, bumpsteer kit, tires

it will outhandle a subaru, but a subaru with an electronic centre diff is so much nicer when u can transfer torque to the rear wheels

u have to drive the pulsar differently but it will out run an equally modded subaru, i do so all the time, i dont know how much is attributed to driving /car

but i typically finish top 10 locally in any car i drive, ef civic/miata/s2000/pulsar

 

a stock pulsar handles like shit, but thats coming from someone who's used to racing on double adjustable motons/ koni 2812's/ohlin dfv's/ AST's .. which are in the 500-1500$ a corner range

there are some serious compromises to be made when u want the pulsar to handle properly.

u need a ton of caster, u need a roll centre correction kit, a bumpsteer kit, a lot of static camber 2.5 degrees plus, and toe out in front.  u need at least a 225 width tire as well.  also the brakes r utter shit in the pulsar stock.  

this means a car thats more prone to following ruts in the road, and doesnt want to track straight and is far more dangerous in the wet due to camber thrust.

however, in compettion this is what u need.

i have all of the above except the roll centre correction kit.

u can take a look at my for sale list to see what it takes to make the pulsar quick around a track.  i dont have a lot of monster power.

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Edmonton AB

Feb 15, 2008

Well to further the discussion Nick started - where you are placed in terms of clasification in a JDM car is largely up to the club and there are nation wide discussions as to how to classify our cars (and other JDM cars). There was initially a general push to follow the American SCCA rule book verbatum but that becomes problematic as Canada has a plethora of JDM cars, BMW M3's that were never shipped to the states, list goes on...we are not America folks. The point also that Solo2 is intented to be a competetive but inclusionary sport where people can learn car control and technical aspects as well as become highly competitive. To exclude JDM's all together is to deny a huge part of our population a chance to race.

Anyway - I saw some revisions to the rules that outlined classing cars based on general performance and modifications (often initiatlly assessed by a home club). That said you will not be able, for the time being, to compete in nationals in any other catagory then SSM (super street mod) or something worse.

When I ran in Street Mod I generally came in top 5 and often held FTD for my events. I also won nationals in for Regional as well a National Title. As Nick mentioned...it cost me a fortune and endless hours to set up my car.

For now I am pushed to Super Street Modified so I am going all out...I want to win a title to spite being marginalized!!

Anyway gonzogtr - your competitors will be:

Super fast Turbo Miata's, Super fast RX7's, and other random sickenly fast cars.

 

2011 Canadian FIA Autoslalom Street Modified Class National Champion

www.facebook.com/TastefulMods

www.tastefulmods.com

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Edmonton AB

Feb 15, 2008

Pulsars are also an expensive pain in the ass - but it depends on how much you love them and want to play with something a little more unique.

2011 Canadian FIA Autoslalom Street Modified Class National Champion

www.facebook.com/TastefulMods

www.tastefulmods.com

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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

Yah if you intend to compete locally, its really whatever your club wants to do.

 

I compete down in the states in the larger national tour where more of the big boys play, so using a jdm car vs the eric hyman godzilla with his 1200hp r35 godzilla and custom hoosiers is downright insane.  or vs bob bundy in his 400hp ssm miata with aero and sub 2100lbs and very very wide hoosiers ( he holds many lap records up n down the west coast at various tracks also one of the nicest guys around)

Also both my local clubs follow the us standard.   My local club is fun and all, but the big players all head down to national tour, even from alberta.  locally i'd say there's about 10-20 really good drivers, beating the rest is nothing to brag about.  i may finish top 10 locally regularly but down at national tour, i'm in the top half pack at best.

I guess it comes down to goals and budget

1. do you want to win locally, and what are the rules locally (medium to high cost)

2. do you just want to have fun , (lowest cost)

3. do you want to go all out and compete at the national level and or us national level ( u might as well buy something else)

define your goals and budget first, then decide where u want to go.  Classing plays a huge factor as well... there are specific cars in each specific class that are the go to cars.

 

realistically - this is the win price for autox 

suspension 4-5000$

diffs - 2500-3000$

wheels 1000$

tires 1000$ per season

500-1500$ body work to fit the biggest wheels you can with the biggest hoosiers you can

engine in ssm with rebuild/forged pistons/turbo/tune- 4-5000$ plus 2-3000$ contigency for anything else

spare gearboxes/bracing - 1000-3000$

and anything else on top $2000 contingency

fuel related items 500-1000$  kuz the nissan starve issue is prevelant in the pulsar

aero - 1000-5000$

other misc mods seats etc, 2000-5000$

 

racing isn't cheap, tack on the fact exchange is also now plus 20-25%

However, the above pricing is true of any car in ssm, and even more for others and how far you want to push it.

used parts, help from friends, etc all can bring the price down.

 

but for autox, u want the smallest car, lightest car, shortest car, widest tire,  most powerful engine with as little lag, biggest wing and splitter you can get your hands on

 

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Ryan
Prince George

Jan 25, 2015

Thanks Nick and modform for answering my questions and the feedback.

I should mention back at the family farm we have a private road that measures just under 1.4km its a nice classic interior forest road style that leads to out to the shale pit.  It strts halfway down the propery through it and to the back to the shale pit. Nice corners, some humps, opens up to some fields part way. When I get days off my plan is to trim the road with my saw and the quad. Then practice time trials on it. My plan regardless of what car i get/keep is to practice my skills since even if I don't pursue autox to a competitive level I'd like to try out the amateur rally events in BC for the time lapse. I do allot of hiking so going to rally events would be pretty sweet and convenient. I'm leaning for the pulsar since personally its such a cool rally icon. Tho thats off topic and another discussion. I'm mostly wanting to do autox first haha, I might not have allot of time this summer for much more than autox.

For autox I mainly just want to go out and have a good time. If I do good then great :) and if not as long as I have fun kill some time and meet great people and fellow car enthusiasts then its all good. Tho there are some cocky guys in the local club I'd like to beat. The only way I'd end up doing the national tour in Canada is if I'm any good and as for the states that'd require me to be really good and buy a domestic. I like being different and I'd just have to be that guy in the us with a JDM.

The local corvette group in PG puts on a autox and allows our local car club to join. They just have the two classes

Two classes:
COMP: for tread wear 139 and LESS
STREET: for tread wear 140 and MORE
That's the only classes. Its nothing major just more for getting the skills down I think? Corvettesnorth.ca for more specific tho those were the only two classes. I don't think they expect anything crazy from our small town.

Most of my friends from the club do it for a hobby so its something that apeals for a fun day out. Tires and a few parts and labour wont be a bad commitment for this group. I just want to have some fun first try it and see if I'm any good   and pursue from there haha if not I'd still like to just do it for fun. I also have to try both autox and rally time stages and see what I like best  before fully commiting or just do a 2 car set up

I find the sti very stiff as is and fun in the corners, albeit the po had it tuned and set up for his driving. I was going to drop 8k into the gc8 but ive always wanted to build a sr20 up. The ej20k's don't have the capability as the sr20's from what i have come to undertand. Id have to do an engine swap to be competitive. Now i know just how much work it would be im indecisive. Tho te thought of the pulsar being even better hadnling is pretty sick

Thanks again for the input nick I never knew how much effort and cost it'd be for the pulsar. I thought it'd be just coilovers arm bars, a arms, tie rods, camber plates, stabilizer, and strut bars, bracing,

I guess I'll have a better idea once I test drive this pulsar I just don't want  to have me and the other party both drive 4 hours  to meet in the middle for a  trade that might not happen if I go into it unsure.

Note-  I'm trying not to get ahead of myself, just looking forward to having a project to go all out on.

Also nice cars, awsome builds

   

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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

if you're just looking to have fun

front brake kit 700 usd

500$+ wheels 15x7's at minimum i'd use a 15x8 to 15x9 if possible

500-1000$ 225/45/15 hankook rs3 v2's or 245/40/15 r compounds of some sort ( will require work to space n fit, maybe fender rolling)

1000-3000$ coilovers, if u go cheap, use at least a 400lb rate in front 400lb - 500lb rate rear at minimum

150$ camber bolts

200$ rear sway bar, its enough to get going to have fun

competitve levels are more expensive.

 

i would not dual duty an off road car with an autox car, they're built in very different ways

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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

http://www.solomatters.com/shop-manual-chapter-11-super-street-modified

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Ryan
Prince George

Jan 25, 2015

nick wrote:

if you're just looking to have fun

front brake kit 700 usd

500$+ wheels 15x7's at minimum i'd use a 15x8 to 15x9 if possible

500-1000$ 225/45/15 hankook rs3 v2's or 245/40/15 r compounds of some sort ( will require work to space n fit, maybe fender rolling)

1000-3000$ coilovers, if u go cheap, use at least a 400lb rate in front 400lb - 500lb rate rear at minimum

150$ camber bolts

200$ rear sway bar, its enough to get going to have fun

competitve levels are more expensive.

 

i would not dual duty an off road car with an autox car, they're built in very different ways

This would all be for the pulsar to be a fairly fun ride for a small local autox?
That build seems pretty reasonable.
Sounds like this much modification would make it on par how my gc8 currently sits?

Thanks for that link btw. Worth the read. I feel very small now, but im going to try autox locally and see how i like it haha
As long as its fun I'm down for it.

Haha I should of clarified that i meant I'd have two seperate rides one for rallying and one for autox

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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

u will notice how badly u cannot put power down on the old viscous rear diff, and open front diff

 

this would be my go to list for order of modification/driving 

 

order of importance

1. driver training

2. seat time

3. tires and rims

4. brakes 

5. rear sway bar

6..2 way rear diff and rear diff bushings

7. suspension - ground control top hats, koni 8611's for the front, koni 8610's for the rear, 500lbs front 600lbs rear 150-250lb rear helpers, 2.7 min camber, max caster, koni bumpstops, 0.1 toe out, 0 rear, 1.5 camber rear, bumpsteer kit and roll centre kit, you can go cheap and buy bc racing coils for 1200$ or do it right the first time and build custom coilovers for about 2500$

 

8 front diff

9 bushings,

10. power

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Ryan
Prince George

Jan 25, 2015

nick wrote:

u will notice how badly u cannot put power down on the old viscous rear diff, and open front diff

 

this would be my go to list for order of modification/driving 

 

order of importance

1. driver training

2. seat time

3. tires and rims

4. brakes 

5. rear sway bar

6..2 way rear diff and rear diff bushings

7. suspension - ground control top hats, koni 8611's for the front, koni 8610's for the rear, 500lbs front 600lbs rear 150-250lb rear helpers, 2.7 min camber, max caster, koni bumpstops, 0.1 toe out, 0 rear, 1.5 camber rear, bumpsteer kit and roll centre kit, you can go cheap and buy bc racing coils for 1200$ or do it right the first time and build custom coilovers for about 2500$

 

8 front diff

9 bushings,

10. power

I think Jeremy Clarkson would have a problem with the order number 10 is placed...

And thanks for the help this site is already proving a awesome resourceful community. I have a lead on a pulsar for sale in the spring thanks to a member on here, which would make me happier since I can keep my Subaru.
I'm looking to utilize the shop at the farm more and do some custom fab work.
Sounds like you had to pioneer your own suspension setup for autox? I'm going to do some research now into making custom coilovers and suspension setup now.

Thanks nick!

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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

you will find that, making the pulsar fast is actually about making it able to maintain more speed in a corner without understeer and getting it to rotate, brake better, and being able to put power down, autocross generally is tight n slow enough it puts u out of the power band so long through corners you get raped while u sit in lag, you'll get a short burst of power then the next corner arrives and u have to slow down again.  r comps would help with this, but i can't rationalize spending money on rcomps when i barely use the car for competition.

power is trumped by weight and handling for autox, of course if you can have all 3 then thats win win win

this is what a pulsar is like at autox, i have a stock motor/turbo with a tune and more boost, i was out testing my new suspension on skinny 195/50/15 r1r's that are well used and on a very cold day so they weren't switched on.

 

http://youtu.be/VrWF4hLAHoE

 

 

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Ryan
Prince George

Jan 25, 2015

That was the general idea I had thought, I was joking about power being more important or number one. When I had first got my car there was a auto cross/pylon sticker on the back then auto club in Japan sticker on the back, I think I found some results of events posted on the pylon page with my car in it, the top car was actually an ae86. So reading about autox weight and handling seemed to be king combined with a light somewhat powerful, fast and high revving engine seemed a positive.
The who suspension setup you guys have mention just blows my mind. Guess I'll be searching yahoo auctions and some other JP sites for coilovers to mod for the pulsar.

So there's no negative camber on your setups?

Also nice video, pulsar vids are like porn

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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

u want lots of front negative camber in the front and minimal in the rear, u still want some as the pulsar handles best by picking up the inside rear like a fwd car specially if u have an open front diff and/or a torsen front diff, u need both wheels with traction in front, else the diff will send it to the wheel with no grip.  

 

the front suspension movement begins with negative dynamic camber on roll, then quickly going into positive camber gain on roll.  this is why u need a lot of front static negative camber, a bumpsteer kit and a roll centre correction kit.   if u lower the car it sits in the positive gain area of the suspension movement, so u need to counter it as much as possible.  a roll centre correction kit, puts it back into the negative gain on camber roll or suspension movement and adds roll resistance.  i run -2.7 degrees of camber in front and -1.5 in the rear.  i have almost no inner tire wear as its all outer edge b/c of the positive camber gain on roll.  this has some drawbacks like car follows ruts, lots of camber thrust, so its a lot easier to aquaplane in puddles of water, and some lost grip in slippery conditions.  

japanese coilovers are generally pretty shit, as are the ksports, taiwense d2, bc's etc, but they work fine for keeping the car low and giving better perfomrance than OE stuff and keep costs low.  

but they dont stand a chance against my setup, however the price tags are vastly different.  suspension is the one place on the car where u pay more u get more, but can also bite u in the ass if you don't know what you're doing

to make the pulsar handle well in a performance environment means giving up something in the daily use environment 

 

 

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Edmonton AB

Feb 15, 2008

Love my K-Sports - held up to brutal punishment and to honest feel as good as friend track cars with Moton's (but that could be setup as well).

 

2011 Canadian FIA Autoslalom Street Modified Class National Champion

www.facebook.com/TastefulMods

www.tastefulmods.com

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Ryan
Prince George

Jan 25, 2015

Sorry for the late reply and update. I was going to doctye trade, tho when it came close to the arranged date, the owner of the car reported being rammed by a random truck and the car was wrote off. In what he told me and from the pictures I figured out he was out snow drifting and hit a barrier... For being hit on a Friday he already had an adjuster and settlement on Sunday... And was trying to convince me to buy his pulsar for no less than 6500 wrecked with a salvage title.

It was quite funny because for a guy in a really jacked lifted truck to have rammed him twice and into a snow bank/barrier there wasn't any damage in the other side, really hard frozen banks tend to do that. There was no exchange of paint either(like what happens with a concrete jersey barrier) The relative height of the hit just below the window in the middle of the panel/door fits the height of the barrier and not that of a jacked truck with a bull bar.

I was going to still buy the car as a track weapon only but well he took a slight from my offering a lower price than 6500, he got upset so I called him out on the story, and after some swears and threats from him I blocked his number so I don't have the pictures he sent anymore.

So I'm hoping to either sell my car here and wait for a decent one at auction as my buddy will import at cost for me, or trade for a landed car. I have been making a build plan for the pulsar and sr20det thanks to the feedback on here