GTIR running lean and loss of power

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Marius850r's picture
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Mar 8, 2013
GTIR running lean and loss of power

Hi too all hope to get my issue solved !!!

Car is pretty much stock i use it as a daily driver  , i have a wideband thats why i see those afr going lean while driving or hard acceleration ( STARTED about 3 months ago )  . Sometimes at idle lean sometimes is  ok  sits at 14.6  hard acceleration max i hit its 13.5 ( wich i find lean ) and then lean out true RPM and i let off the gas to not damage anything   , car feels sluggish and poor performance , feels like hesitating  (  no miss fire )  , i have no codes  , i want back my little rocket !!

Things I done to try to find the problem

- fuel filter replaced

- knock sensor replaced  (  has a code in spring 34 )

- mass air flow replace ( i have 3 of them  that i switch around ) same problem

- installed fuel pressure gauge to see if fpr work pressure goes up

- reground maf to plenum ground

- cap / wires /  plus new ( original plugs $$ )

- tried different ecu

- smoke test to all pipes no leak T  bolt clamps 

mods are simlpe downpipe , stock CAT , cat back 2.3/4

i dont know where to go anymore probably with other people experience i can fix it ..... 

 

Thanks

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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

try fuel pump and / or injectors

the fuel pump is around 20-25 years old now

Pulsar666's picture
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Erik
laval

Jun 10, 2012

nick wrote:

try fuel pump and / or injectors

the fuel pump is around 20-25 years old now

125$ for a AEM 320lph, install kit included in the box.

Also you could try another oxygen sensor, maybe it has gone bad.

Marius850r's picture
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Mar 8, 2013

nick wrote:

try fuel pump and / or injectors

the fuel pump is around 20-25 years old now

i have another set of injectors ,  i will put them in tonight to  see  ,  now at cold start i can WOT  and no  response .....  feels like the  car  has 0 fuel going in the engine  after 30 sec of idle i get throtle response wierd .....

Marius850r's picture
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Mar 8, 2013

UPDATE . injectors swapped i feel a small difference , but still running lean under acceleration , plugged fuel pressure gauge  (  fuel pressure idle 38 psi and going up while accelerating so FPR does it job ) , going to recheck tps sesnor if acting up  and order a new o2 sensor .....

Pulsar666's picture
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Erik
laval

Jun 10, 2012

did you play with the ignition timing on the distributor when you changed cap and rotor ?

Marius850r's picture
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Mar 8, 2013

Pulsar666 wrote:

did you play with the ignition timing on the distributor when you changed cap and rotor ?

I did , but adjusted timing with procedures maybe i am off .......

Marius850r's picture
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Mar 8, 2013

Marius850r wrote:

 

Pulsar666 wrote:

did you play with the ignition timing on the distributor when you changed cap and rotor ?

 

I did , but adjusted timing with procedures maybe i am off .......

 

timing and idle readjusted .... still same problem !  o2 sensor ??????

 

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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

why do u keep ignoring the fuel pump?

ur bypass valve may also be stuck open

i have no idea why you're looking at the 02 sensor, by default the pulsar runs rich, even with the 02 sensor

 

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Erik
laval

Jun 10, 2012

nick wrote:

why do u keep ignoring the fuel pump?

ur bypass valve may also be stuck open

i have no idea why you're looking at the 02 sensor, by default the pulsar runs rich, even with the 02 sensor

 

he's not running rich, he's running really lean. Could destroy the engine if run like that for too long

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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

Pulsar666 wrote:

 

nick wrote:

why do u keep ignoring the fuel pump?

ur bypass valve may also be stuck open

i have no idea why you're looking at the 02 sensor, by default the pulsar runs rich, even with the 02 sensor

 

 

he's not running rich, he's running really lean. Could destroy the engine if run like that for too long

I don't think you're understanding what I'm trying to convey The o2 wouldn't lead to a lean condition in stock form The default maps are super rich in closed and open loop Anyways its your money spend it how u like

 

anyways are you sure they're gtir maf's, using the incorrect maf could result in this

bad injectors

fuel pump

tps wayy out of spec

str_motorsport's picture
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Italy

Dec 7, 2010

O2 sensor cannot cause to run lean.I have been driving mine for month with a broken o2 sensor for month without even noticing.
Check the fuel pump and voltage to fuel pump.It is a common failure to have reduxed voltage to fuel pump .

Marius850r's picture
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Mar 8, 2013

i dont denny  tihe fuel pump / tonight i will put my voltmeter on  the connector to see voltage present and while in  use (  voltage drop ) , i have a walbro sitting around if needed .... the mafs are GTIR ( checked Part # before installing ) .....  i just miss my little rocket !!

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Chris
Nanaimo, BC

Jan 6, 2014

+1 on the o2 sensor. it's only used for cruising. i would double check your timing unless your dead sure you got it into timing mode. they can be tricky to time if your car wont idle lower than 1k rpm. and put that new warlboro in anyways, to satisfy us, and because you have a 20+ year old stock fuel pump.

Marius850r's picture
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Mar 8, 2013

khhhhris wrote:

+1 on the o2 sensor. it's only used for cruising. i would double check your timing unless your dead sure you got it into timing mode. they can be tricky to time if your car wont idle lower than 1k rpm. and put that new warlboro in anyways, to satisfy us, and because you have a 20+ year old stock fuel pump.

In OBD1 o2 sensor are usualy used for idle and cruise ( why i suspect its values i get on my wideband .... and 20 years old sensor ! ) , timing i am sure i went true procedures from service manual , even adjusted the idle around 875 rpm/ idle and timing  20deg ( i have a blitz vit ( wich show actual values and 20deg constant at idle  ) , I WILL CHANGE THE PUMP FOR EVERYONE !  after i get down in fuel level ! i will start with voltage present and then replace

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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

the ecu reported timing, is not necessarily the physical base timing,  you need to check that with a timing light

 

Marius850r's picture
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Mar 8, 2013

nick wrote:

the ecu reported timing, is not necessarily the physical base timing,  you need to check that with a timing light

 

what i say its my mark on pulley with my timing light correspond with values on my blitz so i confirm my timing . i work as tech but i never denny what people say but when i check stuff i even double the info as per manufacture to make sure

 

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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

ok, im just answering based on what information is provided 

http://www.ecutalk.com/interface.aspx

one of these would be really helpful..

 

Marius850r's picture
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Mar 8, 2013

Fuel pump replaced nothing changed ..... voltage present 10.80v while running , ran power wire to provide bat power to pump same problem .....no codes stored in system

Pulsar666's picture
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Erik
laval

Jun 10, 2012

Should have at least 12 volts at the fuel pump, what's the voltage at the battery with and without engine running ?

Marius850r's picture
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Mar 8, 2013

Pulsar666 wrote:

Should have at least 12 volts at the fuel pump, what's the voltage at the battery with and without engine running ?

proper voltage is there , here is a screen shot from ecutalk , 0 values fro o2 sensor

[URL=http://s935.photobucket.com/user/marius850r/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140924_200259_zpsqqil19b6.jpg.html][IMG]http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad193/marius850r/Mobile%20Uploads/20140924_200259_zpsqqil19b6.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

If that's tps voltage its out of spec

Marius850r's picture
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Mar 8, 2013

nick wrote:

If that's tps voltage its out of spec

I saw that too 0.36 v not good usaly supose to be .40-.50 v , but no o2 sensor values at all

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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

Supposed to be 0.45 to 0.5
My 02 does the same at idle give it minimal constant throttle and ull see it's fine. Fix ur tps .. So much for a tech

Marius850r's picture
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Mar 8, 2013

nick wrote:

Supposed to be 0.45 to 0.5
My 02 does the same at idle give it minimal constant throttle and ull see it's fine. Fix ur tps .. So much for a tech

Nice comment ..... i will.adjust tomorow 
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Erik
laval

Jun 10, 2012

Marius850r wrote:

Pulsar666 wrote:

Should have at least 12 volts at the fuel pump, what's the voltage at the battery with and without engine running ?

proper voltage is there , here is a screen shot from ecutalk , 0 values fro o2 sensor

no i meant check the voltage with a voltmeter or a multimeter directly on the battery, once with the engine off and once with the engine running. you should. have around 12.5v before you start your engine and 14.1 to 14.7v with engine running. if those values are good you'll have to check your harness to find the wire that gives you a drop of voltage at your fuel pump.

str_motorsport's picture
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Italy

Dec 7, 2010

Voltage to pump is too low mate.Sort this out

Marius850r's picture
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Mar 8, 2013

tonight after work i will adjust tps sensor and fault trace wires from relay to pump ...

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Erik
laval

Jun 10, 2012

Start from the BATTERY to make sure your alternator is really charging and your battery is in good shape. I already had lot of trouble because of a alternator that wasn't charging like it should and I had a dead battery without knowing it

Marius850r's picture
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Mar 8, 2013

update ..... battery ok , alternator charging 13.98 v . mass air flow voltage to spec ...... since fuel pump change ( fuel pressure ok )  and timing,  engine running a lot better  ....  now that everything is ok , my afr still going lean ...... i went over the net for the AEM  UEGO  i think my sensor is starting to act up .... i have a spare so tonight i will do the change since has bearly any millage on

Marius850r's picture
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Mar 8, 2013

Marius850r wrote:

update ..... battery ok , alternator charging 13.98 v . mass air flow voltage to spec ...... since fuel pump change ( fuel pressure ok )  and timing,  engine running a lot better  ....  now that everything is ok , my afr still going lean ...... i went over the net for the AEM  UEGO  i think my sensor is starting to act up .... i have a spare so tonight i will do the change since has bearly any millage on , other than that if problem still there after i dont know wich way to go

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Nicholas Chu
Vancouver

Jan 24, 2008

so fixing your tps and fuel pump fixed your issue?

 

Marius850r's picture
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Mar 8, 2013

nick wrote:

so fixing your tps and fuel pump fixed your issue?

 

Thanks to all , all my problems solved , speacialy WIdeband sensor ( dint last long 10 k ) ....  now afr all  good idle /  cruise /  acceleration  after all the adjustements